Chris Cate: Welcome to the Fluent in Floridian podcast, featuring the Sunshine State's brightest leaders, talking about the issues most important to the people of Florida and its millions of weekly visitors. I'm your host Chris Cate, and in this episode created by SalterMitchellPR, I talk to Brecht Heuchan, the founder of Contribution Link, a political intelligence, data analytics, and fundraising company. He's also on Florida's Constitution Revision Commission, and in our conversation we not only talk about data research and how it's being used by companies, associations, and campaigns, we also discuss how the Constitution Revision Commission is deciding what parts of our constitution need to change. And you can hear it all right now.

Brecht, thanks so much for being on the show. We're gonna talk about your work on the Constitution Revision Commission, but I'd like to begin by asking about your work prior to the Commission. So can you share how you first got your start into politics?

Brecht Heuchan: Sure. Well, Chris, first thanks for having me and it's an honor to be with you and talk about the CRC and what's ahead of us. But I got involved in politics really during school. I came to FSU from Clearwater, Florida, where I was mostly raised, and am a political science major, and graduated with a Bachelor in Science degree from FSU. So I was always kind of interested in it, and being in a capital town, it's just kind of up the hill, so to speak. And so I got an internship for what was then called the House Republican Campaign Committee, which, at the time, was separate from the party structure as we know it today. And then yeah, just started working on campaigns and when I graduated I got a full-time job, and then that led to other jobs and yeah, and then here we are today.

There's a lot of stops along the way, like all of us. We do our best to do a good job to work hard and keep your nose clean, and then hopefully things pay off. And certainly I've had amazing opportunities, but really because of the investment that other people have had in me, not really anything I did on my own. 

Chris Cate: Well perhaps where you made the biggest impact on Florida politics is through your data mining information about voters and donors, and being able to analyze that information. How did you find yourself getting into that particular area of politics?

Brecht Heuchan: Well, as a campaign person, and I've run and been involved in hundreds of them in my life, the fundraising piece is a critical piece. And there's many, many great candidates, but if you don't have the money to tell your message, well it's almost kind of like it didn't happen. And so I found myself constantly looking to this finance data, which is mostly publicly available, but it's not organized in a way that's terribly useful. So I just had this idea, this was back in the late '90s, actually, when I was working for ... I ran the Senate campaign operation and I just had this idea, there had to be a better way to do this. I tried it once before, but it didn't work. I don't think that the technology was really there, I don't think I had the endurance, so to speak, on finishing it. So it ended up not being completed and I kind of shelved the idea. Pursued other ambitions that I had at the time for my family and myself.

And then I tried to give the idea to someone else, computer technology company who was already kind of in this space serving commercially other customers, and it was really outside of their wheelhouse too, so they didn't want it. And then a couple more years passed and I was still kind of doing some of the same things. And I knew other people were, too. And so then I just ... Just one day I was like, you know what? I'm gonna try to do this. And so I convinced my wife to take some money that we had, it ended up being quite a bit of money, and I hired a software development company. It was supposed to take eight or nine months and cost 40 or $50,000 to make. It ended up taking three years and it cost three or four times that amount of money to finish it.

And so I didn't go broke, but I certainly ran out of money along the way, and through a lot of trial and error I was convinced that there was a need for this in the marketplace and some commercial viability for it. I wasn't convinced, though, that I could get it to work or that B, people would pay for it. But both of those have ended up being true. The company grows every single year, organic growth. It's mostly word of mouth. We don't do big marketing things, and we probably should, but that would take the stewardship of someone else and even more money to do. So yeah, it's a good company and we have a lot of great customers and they seem to be happy.

‍Chris Cate: Well, like you said, the technology really has advanced even since you created the company. I'm sure the ability to mine data because so much more information is online now, and the technology is better. What kind of things are possible now as far as gathering information about voters and donors?

Brecht Heuchan: Well ours is primarily a donor file. There's plenty of amazing voter applications, software applications. Ours is primarily a donor application. So it starts with a donor file and then we stack other information on top of it, including voter information. So if you give money in the state of Florida, we operate in other states as well, but all of that ... In most states, that's publicly available, and it's in electronic form. So once it gets into those two arenas, it's an electronic form and it's publicly available, you can capture that information, reorganize it, reformat it, and then combine it with other sets of files like voter information. Like demographic information.

So if you're a donor and you give in Florida, once that information ... Or Ohio, or Georgia, or in North Carolina, in these number of places that we operate, once that's available to you then it's really just a system of matching. And so if Chris Cate gives $100 to a candidate in Florida, after that I can know what party you belong to, if you're a voter, how often you vote, whether you vote in primaries, whether you vote by absentee, whether you vote early. I can know what your spouse's name is, often how many kids in your household, what your credit rating is, how many mortgages you have on your house, what magazines you buy. So once that information is available, you can start to develop profiles of that donor. And then from that, all kinds of trends can be developed.

And so for our clients, it's twofold. We serve clients in the political space, and their primary goal is to raise more money. So you wanna raise as much money as you can as efficiently as you can. And so we help them tailor fundraising plans that are designed to do, in fact, that. Raise as much as you can as quick as you can, and as efficiently and cheaply as you can. 

On the other side of our business, it's more of a corporate research component. And so when you give and you're participating in politics, really at any level, there's a need to understand where you as a company are participating, and at what levels, and who you're giving to, versus other people in your space, whether they be your competitors or your allies. And so those are the two kind of big silos of service that we operate, the political piece and the corporate research piece.

Chris Cate: Since you've been studying donors for a while, is there kind of a sweeping generalization you could make about what the Florida donor is like, or what donating to politics is right now, in this current cycle?

Brecht Heuchan: I don't know that you could make a sweeping comment about it. I mean there's ... People are motivated to participate in politics for different reasons. Human beings as individuals are primarily motivated because they adhere to or believe in what that particular candidate or committee is doing or saying. Whatever the political objectives are. That's generally true. And whether you believe in whatever issue that that candidate has taken a stand on. So that's primarily what motivates individual donors, whether they be $10, $5, or $5,000.

When you're a corporate donor, the motives are some similar. You still believe in the general kind of idea that this person represent ... this candidate or committee, the recipient of that contribution, generally aligns with your kind of worldview, whether it be pro-business, or your views on healthcare, things like that. Your views on education. So that's the two primary kind of things that I would say, just in terms of characteristics of a donor.

Chris Cate: Well, I imagine your knowledge about Florida voters and donors was a reason that Governor Scott selected you to be on the Constitution Revision Commission. Did he give you any advice when he asked you to be on the CRC?

Brecht Heuchan: Yes, he did. I don't know why he picked me. It's clear to me that he picked people who he thought would use good judgment, and used their own experiences to apply to whatever the issues that would come before the commission are. I mean the only real advice that the Governor gave me was, "Don't let anything bad happen." And of course the next question was, "Well what does that mean?" And he'll say, "Well, you'll know. You use your own judgment to make good decisions for the people of Florida."

Chris Cate: Well, there are 37 members on the commission with varying backgrounds, but what do you say to people who feel like it's not as ideologically balanced as it should be?

Brecht Heuchan: I've heard that criticism, if you wanna call it that, from other people. I don't really share that view. The ideological makeup of the commission ... Look, I've met all of these people now. I knew many of them before, and the ones that I didn't know I've spent some considerable time with now. There are very, very wide ranging experiences from these people. They're diverse in literally every single way. There's people from all over the state, so they have different geographic regional views, they have different ... I don't think I'm the youngest one, but I'm certainly not the oldest one, so there's people with vastly more experience than I have, whether they be lawyers, these elite lawyers, or these elite business people that have made massive companies, employed thousands of people. Those are the kinds of people that are there.

And so I don't see it as being ideologically kind of aligned. In fact, if you look at some of the votes that have already been cast on some of these proposals, they don't match up with that narrative of oh, these are all ... these conservatives, or these are all liberals, or these are all moderates, or these are all republicans. That's, in fact, no true. And the votes that have been cast so far seem to demonstrate a more discerning view of the proposals based on their merit, not based on what other people think your ideology is.

Chris Cate: Reviewing the constitution seems like a huge task to do, and to find out what needs improvements or not. How is the CRC going about organizing that job? Are you taking different sections, where some people are taking different areas to review? Or is everybody kind of doing their own comprehensive review?

Brecht Heuchan: Primarily the first way that you described it, Chris, no one's looking at the constitution in terms of reviewing the whole thing. We had nine public hearings, we visited almost every area of the state, we're gonna do four or six more next year, so we'll get over to the panhandle, which we haven't been to yet, and then retouch some of the places we've already been. But we've heard from thousands of people now on things that they thought were important. Some of those ideas were advanced in the way of individual public proposals that turned into member proposals, but there were 103 of them filed. 103 total proposals. And they touch almost every part of the constitution in one way or another. There's some that are ... You could group them, though. There's about 10 or 12 different kind of general areas or articles that fit into ... And our constitution is organized by articles, and these proposals are organized in the same way. So if they seek to amend that particular article, they're kind of in that jurisdiction.

And then from that, the CRC established these committees. And those committees are designed to review each of those proposals in their jurisdiction. So if it's Declaration of Rights, or General Provisions, or the Legislative Committee, or the Executive, or Judiciary. So that's how it's working, and in that sense it's very much like the legislative process where you have committees, and people who sit on those committees, and their job is the hard work of kind of kicking the tires on all these proposals and deciding one, could the proposal be improved through an amendatory process after hearing from other members of the public, other members of the CRC that may have something to say about that proposal? And then if the proposal advances, ultimately the commission will be left with the decision, hey is this something that the people of Florida should consider? And if so, what should it be?

And for me, that's really kind of the fundamental decision to be made. I mean there's been a lot of people that say, "Oh, this doesn't belong in the constitution, or you shouldn't be doing that, or you shouldn't be doing this, or the legislature should be doing this, that or the other thing." And I respect that view, I appreciate that view, but the legislature has a role, and the CRC has a role, and they're different. And so we don't have to diminish the role of the legislature, but the legislature's role shouldn't diminish our role.

And so ultimately, it comes down to whether or not ... It's not whether or not me, Brecht Heuchan, thinks this is a good idea. I mean if I look at these 103 proposals, there's many of them, most of them I think, are good ideas that would, in fact, advance the cause of Florida over the next 20 years. But that standard isn't good, is not a standard that we have to apply. It's great. And are we sure that that proposal's gonna have the impact that we intend? And that's the scary part about it. Unlike the legislature, we can't just come back and fix it. We have to be absolutely sure that yes, this is the decision that we think the voters should consider or not. And obviously that's a big deviation from the legislature, too. We don't get to wave a wand and do it. The voters are the ones that ultimately decide whether or not something belongs in the constitution. So that shouldn't be lost on anyone. I mean I realize we all kind of understand that. All we're doing is making suggestions. That's it.

Chris Cate: And I know you need a 60% for the amendment to pass. If you've got an idea you think is a good idea but it's really kind of on the 50/50 fence, which would make it unlikely to pass at the ballot, how do you handle an issue like that? Do you still move forward, or are you really looking for things not only that are good ideas but that you think are also likely to pass?

Brecht Heuchan: For me personally, as an individual, I think that the likelihood of passage is a consideration for sure. It's not the only consideration by any stretch, but it is a consideration. Because you don't ... There's such a balance between being careful, and no matter who you talk to, regardless of where they're from or what ideological experiences they've had, or on what side of the aisle they are on any given issue, they all will say, "When it comes to the constitution and amending this core fundamental document that we have that governs all kinds of things for us, our rights, our freedoms, how far can government go to infringe on its people, all of those things, and the critical nature of those words in that document, we should be careful." Everyone agrees to that.

At the same time, there's room for a once every 20 year commission like this to be bold. And so that is a balance that needs to be sorted out, not just for me personally, but by the commission. So yeah, it's a consideration, but it's not the only one. And even then, it's speculative. I mean you could have public opinion polling, and you could do all this research, but in the end, the voters decide. And so the one thing that I know about voters given my experience is they know what they're doing, first of all. You can't dupe them. That's been seen over, and over, and over again. But they're also temperamental and voter behavior changes. So we have a state that elected President Obama twice, and then elected President Trump just four years later. And so just that alone would lead any reasonable person to believe that voter attitudes on any given time can change. And so whether something doesn't appear to be appealing at first, it may later.

So that's a long answer to your question, but I think it is a consideration whether something can pass or not, but it's not the only one.

Chris Cate: And you probably don't want 30 or 40 amendments on the ballot, because that would be very hard, I think, for voters to process. So how do you, if you've got several good ideas, how do you break them up into something that's manageable for a voter to comprehend in that ballot box that's not gonna be 4,000 words that they're gonna have to read?

Brecht Heuchan: Right. That's a great question. It's one I think about all the time, and it's perhaps the biggest question facing the CRC in the end. But we have to understand that there's a process that was set up. The process was set up through the rules that we adopted. That process calls for these committees and these individual members to make decisions along the way. So those decisions are being made, and will continue to be made, and whatever's left in the end, the commission itself is gonna have to decide what are those cream of the crop issues? Because I think, I mean I don't know that everybody feels like I do, I'm just sharing with you my personal views, that of the 103 things that were filed, could I vote for 80 of them? Yeah, I could, but to your point, I mean you can't have 80 things on the ballot. You can't have 30 things on the ballot.

You have to really, really sharpen your pencil on what's the greatest impact. This is, again, just my personal opinion, what are these things that can affect the most amount of people for the most amount of good? And if you apply that standard and other standards to them, I think the commission by itself will come to conclusions that will be good for the state of Florida in terms of those suggestions. And, again, we're not doing it ourselves. We're just simply making a suggestion. Hey voters, you should consider something like this, and then it's up to them to vote it up or down. 

Chris Cate: Has anything surprised you so far about this process as you've been going through it?

Brecht Heuchan: No, not really. No. I mean I'm often awestruck at the process. I mean it's not lost on me this opportunity that the commission has to serve the state of Florida. The people that were appointed, all of them are sincere and well meaning and well intended people. And are doing the best that they can with the resources that they have to make decisions on these things. So I think no, I haven't really been surprised. I mean the other groups that are other out there that like or don't like what the commission's considering, those people are starting to make their voices heard, and so that I'm kind of used to, being involved in the legislative process. So no, I think it's going along as it was designed.

Chris Cate: How will you judge the success of this 20 year CRC, this committee right now?

Brecht Heuchan: Man, that's also a good and tough question. The ways that the past ... this is only the third time this has ever happened. And this process is unique, as Professor Adkins talked to you a week or two ago, there isn't another state that has anything quite like this, at least not designed like this. The success in the past has been measured by how many things did the electorate adopt? And people will say, "Oh, the '78 commission was a failure, and the '98 commission was a success," because in '78 the four or five proposals all failed, and in 1998, eight of the nine passed. And I think that's a normal way to measure success, I think that's just kind of our human nature, but I don't like that. I don't like that measurement, because it only measures really one thing. Ultimately, were you kind of vindicated, essentially, in what you passed as a commission? It's not an unfair way to measure it, but it's also not a comprehensive way to measure it.

I will be happy if the commission, in the end, if the members themselves and the public feel like the process was fair. That their voices were heard, and deliberations were made, and then conclusions were arrived at. And then, again, you have the ultimate backstop, which is the electorate. So if they don't like something that you proposed, they'll vote it down. Even if it's something I care deeply about, I'll be sad and disappointed that the voters didn't share my view, but in the end they're the boss. So I think that that's ... The biggest measurement for success, for me, is that. Just that people believe in the process.

‍Chris Cate: Well I wanna transition now to four questions I ask at the end of interview, the first being who is a Florida leader that you admire?

Brecht Heuchan: Oh, well gosh, there's lots of people I admire and try to emulate. Growing up in politics, I probably have two. One's more recent and one's had a huge, profound impact on my life. I mean this guy, his name's Daniel Webster, he was the first republican Speaker of the House, I worked for him for six years. And it was at a time, I was young, I traveled with him, I got to spend a lot, a lot of time with him. He had an amazing profound impact on my life, and he is still ... he's in Congress now, but anyone that knows him knows what a good human being he is. And a lot of the life lessons that I ... I have wonderful parents who taught me lots of amazing things, but in politics much of what I learned and hopefully try ... It's essentially just how you try to treat other people. I saw him routinely turn the other cheek in the face of adversity or even critics. And so he's definitely one person that I admire, although there are many.

Governor Scott, who I've got to spend a lot of time with in the last few years, is also somebody I admire that, as much as I've been around politics and government, I never knew how hard the job of governor is. It's a awesome job and I know many people would love to have that job, but it's a really, really tough job. Irrespective of who has it. After just being around Governor Scott, and watching him trying to make the decisions he makes, I have a newfound respect for the person who occupies that spot. So he's also somebody I admire and learn a lot from.

Chris Cate: What is something in Florida that you think deserves more attention than what it's getting?

Brecht Heuchan: Well, I think it would be easy to kind of focus on things that maybe we don't do as good. And certainly, Florida, as amazing as it is, it can always improve in different areas. I think, for me, the things that happen that are good don't get enough attention. I think, and this isn't a criticism of anybody or anything, but the way that we are as humans, and the news that we consume, it's usually about bad things. And so we are a state that is in good financial health, we have a crime rate that's at a 42 year low or something like that, and we have a legislature and people in governmental authority over us who I believe are doing the best that they can. Not every decision do they come to that I personally agree with, but I think that's probably, for me, an ... it's not an untold story, but I wish that more people knew that we are, in fact, doing quite well for ourselves as a state, especially compared to other places in our country. And certainly as Floridians we're doing quite well in comparison to people in other countries. I mean the liberty and freedoms that we have here, they're incomparable. So yeah, that's probably, for me ... I try to focus on the good things. So that'd be my answer.

Chris Cate: Do you have a favorite place in Florida to visit?

Brecht Heuchan: Absolutely. My family, we go to the Emerald Coast of Florida, the beaches over there, South Walton, I love that place. There's many great places in Florida. We just went to Busch Gardens, and that was fun, as a family, and there's just ... Florida's amazing. Lots of awesome places to visit, but I think the place that I love to go the most is over there. We go to Seacrest beach and that area over there, so it's always a nice time to kind of get revived.

Chris Cate: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And finally, do you have a favorite Florida sports team?

Brecht Heuchan: Oh yeah, that's easy. I' a Seminole. So I ... yeah. The Noles. They're my team. 

Chris Cate: Great. Well, thank you so much for being on the show.

Brecht Heuchan: Oh, you're welcome, thanks for having me.

Chris Cate: Thanks for listening to the Fluent in Floridian podcast. If you aren't subscribed to the podcast yet, I hope you'll look us up and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app, like Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or Google Play Music. If you leave a review, that would be great, too. Thanks to my team at SalterMitchellPR for making this podcast possible. If you need help telling your Florida story, we've got you covered. We offer issues management, crisis communications, social media, advocacy, and media relations assistance. We also have our own in house creative and research teams. Look us up at saltermitchellpr.com for more information. You can also find more information about the Fluent in Floridian podcast at fluentinfloridian.com. Have a great day.